#0 – In Portrait

00:00:03: What if migration isn't something that just happens but is made?

00:00:10: Welcome to Production Site, the podcast about societal negotiation of migration.

00:00:17: We explore how migration is produced through policies institutions and categories And we ask what role does Migration Research itself play in this process?

00:00:31: Hello everyone and welcome to this very first episode of the Production Site podcast.

00:00:38: My name is Feline Engling Cardoso, I'm hosting this episode together with my colleague Vera Hanewinkel.

00:00:44: We are both science communication officers at the Institute for Migration Research and Intercultural Studies - IMIS at Osnabrück University.

00:00:53: Hi Everyone!

00:00:54: Have you ever stopped thinking about how society actually creates the idea of migration?

00:01:00: not the physical movement of people,

00:01:02: but the

00:01:03: concept itself.

00:01:04: The categories we use, the assumptions we make... In this episode We're exploring a major research center in Germany that's asking radical questions about migration.

00:01:15: Not how do you manage migration or what causes migration?

00:01:19: But rather How to produce migration as social reality.

00:01:24: I'm talking about the Collaborative Research Centre Production of Migration based at Osnabrück University.

00:01:31: And before your eyes glaze over, stick with us – this is actually all about us!

00:01:38: Because here's the thing….

00:01:40: migration doesn't just happen.

00:01:42: it's made and negotiated given meaning by societies institutions researches in everyday people.

00:01:49: It is a process with many different actors involved.

00:01:52: And that process of making migration, That's what this entire research center has been studying since the spring of two thousand twenty-four.

00:02:01: All right!

00:02:02: Let´s dive in

00:02:06: First things first Before we dive into thematically We need to establish What exactly Is a collaborative Research Center or Sonderforschungsbereich In German?

00:02:19: Think

00:02:19: of it as academic Olympics meeting a long-term research mission.

00:02:24: These SFBs, the abbreviation for German title of these special research areas represent one of the most prestigious funding programs for university based fundamental research.

00:02:37: They are funded by DFG – The German Research Foundation and they're highly competitive.

00:02:43: out hundreds applications only about twenty get approved each year.

00:02:48: And here's what makes them so special, their long-term and interdisciplinary.

00:02:54: We're talking about up to twelve years of sustained funding bringing together researchers from different fields not for a one off conference but for genuine deep collaboration.

00:03:05: Exactly Feline!

00:03:06: And here's the kicker.

00:03:08: The SFB Production of Migration, which launched in April twenty-four is the first ever collaborative research center in Germany dedicated specifically to migration research

00:03:20: –the very

00:03:20: first one!

00:03:22: Think about that for a moment….

00:03:24: I mean given how central migration is to global politics social debates and human history itself it actually surprising this groundbreaking.

00:03:34: Before we dive into the production of migration approach, let me briefly explain why the SFBs in some contexts refer to as SFB.

00:03:44: Well, sixteen or four is not a secret code at all.

00:03:48: The DFG assign sequential identification numbers to its collaborative research centers based on the number of their application.

00:03:57: then number sixteen or for essentially the identifier off the SFB production of migrations.

00:04:04: So don't be confused when we talk about SFB.

00:04:09: This SFB brings together more than sixty researchers from Osnabrück University and six partner institutions all over Germany, including universities in Münster Frankfurt, Flensburg Dortmund, Kiel & Berlin.

00:04:23: There are nine different disciplines involved – geography history psychology linguistics law education political science sociology and religious studies.

00:04:34: They all bring their methods and perspectives to the research.

00:04:40: All right, so here comes the conceptual heart of the matter!

00:04:44: What does

00:04:45: it mean to study the production of migration?

00:04:48: Let's hear what the SFB Chair Professor Andreas Pott has to say about this approach.

00:04:54: Production of Migration is a research perspective that inquires into processes for creating maintaining or changing migration.

00:05:03: on its meanings It is a perspective that refers to the social existence of migration.

00:05:09: As a social fact, migrations are relatively stable yet changeable objects – an object made real in societies!

00:05:20: The making this facticity we're interested in.

00:05:24: Production helps us explore the phenomenon's formational reproduction but also its gradual disappearance or neglect.

00:05:33: The concept comes with an entire vocabulary.

00:05:36: the production process, factors and material effects... ...the modes in media of production.. ..the producers, the sites… …the conditions & apparatuses of production….

00:05:48: And of course – the products themselves!

00:05:51: It is important to emphasize that Production Of Migration Is Not A Linear Process.

00:05:57: As a social object migration isn't produced once-and-for all like for instance a car But it demands ongoing efforts and contributions.

00:06:07: Production of migrations are very complex, And a highly contested process.

00:06:13: It involves wide range of actors & practices.

00:06:16: As co-producing force migration research is involved in this process Through the knowledge it produces but also through its research practises Considering that makes production of migration a reflexive

00:06:29: approach.

00:06:33: It takes a whole society to produce migration.

00:06:36: The analysis can only succeed if conducted as truly interdisciplinary

00:06:41: collaboration.".

00:06:42: That's another crucial feature of our SFB!

00:06:46: If this explanation is still a little too abstract for you, I'd like to break it down further.

00:06:51: Here's an example the SFB researchers love when trying explain what they refer to talking about production.

00:07:00: Why

00:07:01: is the Swedish woman living in Germany not typically called a migrant, while the grandchildren of Turkish immigrants born and raised in Germany often are?

00:07:11: This question cuts right to what Andreas just explained.

00:07:15: Migration isn't about crossing borders – it's how societies define, categorise & make sense movement difference & belonging.

00:07:25: How they perceive debate & negotiate human mobility.

00:07:29: The traditional approach to migration studies often takes migration as a given.

00:07:34: A fact, something that is there and needs to be explained, managed or understood.

00:07:40: But SFB 1604 flips it around.

00:07:44: The involved researchers are asking how is migration itself socially constructed?

00:07:50: How do we produce the very idea of migration migrants & migration related problems?

00:07:56: And this is what they call reflexive migration research.

00:08:00: The word reflexive here means turning the lens back on ourselves, on researchers' policymakers', media', civil society and then asking how are we involved in creating what we study?

00:08:13: As an SFB member Professor Thomas Scheffer explains it this way... Reflexives mean that we're somehow involved with those production processes.

00:08:25: first of all, as migration scholars that we produce knowledge on production.

00:08:32: Knowledge is an important aspect of migration

00:08:35: becoming

00:08:36: a fact in society.

00:08:38: but more specifically then as well reflexive in terms of how we research migration for instance at the specific point-in time On a specific stage.

00:08:50: it becomes more solid more established or more thought about.

00:08:57: But how does that work in practice?

00:09:00: Which questions do researchers have to ask themselves when they want to approach research from a reflexive perspective?

00:09:09: We've asked SFB members Dr.

00:09:11: Jens Schneider and Dr Nandita Dutta, To explain reflexive research

00:09:19: Taking a kind of outside perspective on us as researchers, how our strengths and limitations influence the research project.

00:09:27: And at our respective research projects How does it look like for others?

00:09:32: Are its ideas goals and motivations clear to others?

00:09:36: It also means to critically check if

00:09:38: there are any underlying presumptions that

00:09:39: have not been made explicit, be it personal norms and values or established conventions

00:09:44: in disciplines.

00:09:45: Even different national academic

00:09:47: cultures that may make us

00:09:48: not see certain aspects

00:09:50: that are obvious to others.

00:09:52: these presumptions.

00:09:53: me leaders too

00:09:53: for example ask

00:09:54: the wrong questions

00:09:55: to begin with.

00:09:56: Are our categories and classifications adequate when we look

00:09:59: at them from a different angle?

00:10:01: And

00:10:01: do they actually measure

00:10:02: what you want know?

00:10:03: The same applies for the analysis of our data.

00:10:06: Are there other coherent interpretations possible?

00:10:09: Are our interpretations and conclusions doing justice to research participants but also, so-called statement or problem at beginning of our research?

00:10:19: Scientific evidence aims at objectivity But today we know that this requires multiple perspectives and clarifying standpoints but understanding ourselves as inevitably being part of the social processes that we study.

00:10:35: So here's the uncomfortable truth, migration research as any research isn't a neutral and distant observer.

00:10:42: when researchers create or use categories like migration background refugee integration or irregular immigrant.

00:10:51: they're not just describing reality.

00:10:54: They are actively shaping how society thinks about and responds to migration.

00:11:00: In summary, migration research doesn't just study migration.

00:11:04: It participates in producing migration as a social reality.

00:11:09: This might sound abstract but it has real consequences.

00:11:12: Just think about when schools label certain children As Children with a Migration Background.

00:11:19: That label influences how teachers interact With them How other students see themselves.

00:11:26: When visa systems categorize people as skilled workers versus unskilled, that isn't just bureaucracy.

00:11:33: It's creating different types of migrants with different rights and opportunities.

00:11:38: And when media repeatedly connects migration with crisis or crime That association shapes public opinion and political responses.

00:11:49: SFB 1604 is systematically studying these processes the social negotiation of migration and its meanings.

00:11:57: So, how do you actually research something as big and complex as the production of migration?

00:12:04: The SFB has come up with a triangular framework.

00:12:07: they identified three key media through which migration is produced.

00:12:12: think of these as three different lenses for examining this same phenomenon Number one figures.

00:12:19: number two infrastructures.

00:12:21: and number three, Spaces.

00:12:23: Accordingly SFB 1604 has three project areas which each focus on one of these media and contain five different projects related to each medium.

00:12:34: Let's break that down!

00:12:39: Alright I'll start with explaining the very first one.

00:12:42: Figures.

00:12:43: Project area A focuses on what they call figures of migration.

00:12:49: This refers to the social types, categories and stereotypes that shape how we think about migration in migrants.

00:12:57: SFB member Dr Isabel Dieckmann explains it as follows

00:13:17: For instance, there were times in Germany when we spoke a lot about so-called guest workers and then maybe we spoke about Turks meaning to focus more on nationalities as the line of differentiation.

00:13:30: Today We talk a lot About migrants which semantically highlights The migration experience As such instead Of for instance Nationality even though this term might evoke fewer associations with Austrians than let's say with Syrians.

00:13:46: So to summarise, terms like refugee or labour migrant aren't neutral descriptions.

00:13:53: They are loaded categories that bundle together assumptions emotions and expectations.

00:13:58: one project for example examines how the figure of a guest worker child was created in German educational discourse from nineteen sixty two thousand ten.

00:14:09: another projects looks at how anti-racist movements produce their own figures and what effects those have.

00:14:18: The key insight here is that these figures aren't just labels, they have power.

00:14:23: They influence policy-shaped identities And affect how people are treated in schools workplaces and public life.

00:14:31: Let's move to the second one – infrastructures.

00:14:35: Project Area B examines the physical legal technical & social infrastructures That enable or restrict migration.

00:14:43: Think about visas.

00:14:45: A visa isn't just a stamp in your passport.

00:14:48: It's a border infrastructure that sorts people, creates mobility options for some and barriers for others.

00:14:56: One project in the SFB specifically studies how the Visa system produces Mobility AND Immobility.

00:15:04: Other projects look at language as Infrastructure in multi-lingual hospitals or at mosques As religious infrastructure That produce belonging from migrant communities.

00:15:15: Well, we use the term infrastructure in a broad sense because if you look at all those infrastructures who are part of their production process of migration to shape.

00:15:28: The field of migration so we just don't look only on material and physical infrastructures such as buildings or think about border infrastructure with border posts and sometimes fences and walls.

00:15:44: So there are different dimensions which we have to address when you think about migration infrastructure.

00:15:50: There is an organizational dimension, so who's working in the institution?

00:15:57: What other different competencies comes for instance to decide about asylum or visa issues and... For instance.

00:16:06: also there a technological dimension, there is epistemic dimensional different forms of knowledge, there is also regulatory dimension when it comes to rules and regulations.

00:16:19: So infrastructure for us as a multi-dimensional concept can apply across the whole field of

00:16:26: migration.".

00:16:27: We just heard Professor Ulrich Schneckener who's principal investigator in one of the projects in the Infrastructure Cluster.

00:16:35: so according their broad understanding infrastructures all layers from physical barriers at the borders to laws and administrative regulations, and people involved in their implementation.

00:16:50: To put it in a nutshell – The infrastructure perspective shows us the machinery…the visible but also often invisible systems & structures that shape migration behind scenes.

00:17:03: Last but not least let's move on.

00:17:08: Project Area C focuses on how migration produces and is produced through space.

00:17:14: I have asked Professor Christiane Reinecke, whose project is situated in the Spaces Cluster what spaces of migration are?

00:17:23: If we think about migration...

00:17:25: We often

00:17:27: think about it with reference to certain spaces.

00:17:30: right The border is a classic one.

00:17:32: It's hard to think that migration was out In some way or another talking about borders But there are others.

00:17:39: There, for example certain neighborhoods that people associate with migrants and what's happening they're associated to the migrants.

00:17:47: you could say these spaces of migration as in

00:17:50: we use this

00:17:52: reference is a certain space.

00:17:53: so not just think or talk about migration maybe also experience it.

00:17:57: And

00:17:58: because it's getting more theoretical, the more you're looking at something.

00:18:02: It can also mean how I describe somebody as being a migrant or migantize him of her and usually use references to space is...I ask him where are your from?

00:18:14: Which if you have come here find usually very irritating.

00:18:19: So what I do is by referring to somewhere else, I make somebody in being from someone else.

00:18:26: So spatial...I would call that spacial markers right?

00:18:30: Using a reference to space to say somebody's not from here and some are not belonging it's border or neighborhood where people refer too In order talk about migration but can also mean I use references to space for people doing all the time so they're not from there.

00:18:48: this kind of using spatial references can also be a space for migration and more abstract understanding.

00:18:56: One SFB project examines how local administrations and science specialise migration in urban contexts, another one looks at how they use internal and external borders are produced through migration policies.

00:19:10: There is even a project on spaces of migrant disappearance, studying how certain spaces in this case the Atlantic Ocean between Western North Africa and the Spanish Canary

00:19:21: Islands

00:19:22: become zones where migrants disappear.

00:19:25: How the numbers that circulate about these disappearances are created from whom?

00:19:30: And what tells us about migration

00:19:32: governance?".

00:19:33: What's

00:19:34: powerful about this three-part framework?

00:19:40: figures, infrastructures and spaces interact.

00:19:43: The visa infrastructure for example creates the figure of the legal migrant in its counterpart – the irregular or illegal migrant.

00:19:52: The letter is then used by politicians to justify the establishment of infrastructures of deterrence and surveillance like fences and drones in spaces like border zones.

00:20:04: Fifteen individual research projects are distributed across these three clusters figures, infrastructures and spaces.

00:20:12: Each examining specific cases from physician recruitment to climate-induced mobilities —from language policies—to refugee

00:20:20: categories.".

00:20:25: Now here's where the SFB gets really innovative!

00:20:29: Beyond the fifteen research projects involved in the SFB they've built into unique components –the Reflexivity Lab–and The Transfer Project.

00:20:40: The Reflexivity Lab is essentially the SFB's thinking space for collective reflection.

00:20:46: Remember that we mentioned reflexivity earlier?

00:20:49: Well, this lab as where researchers from different projects come together to develop their shared theoretical frameworks!

00:20:56: We asked Jens Schneider and Nandita Dutta whom have already heard on in this episode who organized the reflexivity sessions.

00:21:06: The

00:21:08: Reflexivity Lab offers a framework for especially early career researchers to exchange and collaboratively work on reflexive perspectives in their research projects.

00:21:18: It engages the SFB in debates within the wider research community but also at the level of local, national and even international political and societal debates.

00:21:29: The Reflex Lab also looks at

00:21:30: methods It looks at the role of reflexive research in different disciplines and it asks SFB's research projects to continually reflect

00:21:39: on how they produce

00:21:40: knowledge.

00:21:41: You see, The Reflexivity Lab creates sustained dialogue between researchers involved in the SFB as well with international guests who are regularly invited to workshops conferences or collaboratively write articles.

00:21:56: Then there is the Transfer Project which I find particularly compelling.

00:22:01: The SFB isn't content to just publish in academic journals.

00:22:05: They involve researchers, want their insights to reach the public and interact with different groups.

00:22:12: Annika Heyen ordinates the transfer project's activities.

00:22:16: I asked her about the aim of the Transfer Project and how they are trying to accomplish it.

00:22:23: We believe that knowledge transfer can –and should– occur in two directions.

00:22:27: We as researchers have much to learn from the expertise of people outside university and should bring their experiences into our knowledge production.

00:22:36: The title for transfer project, Reflexive Migration Research in Museum Potentials & Perspectives of Virtual Realities pretty accurately describes what we are trying do.

00:22:46: In close partnership with a documentation center and museum on migration in Germany can change the way history and presence of migration in our society are told.

00:23:02: To achieve that, we developed two digital tools – which allow people to tell their own story either through virtual exhibitions or digitally transforming real places into environments that make ties with migration directly visible.

00:23:17: The digital space for example allows us and them to erect memorials to victims of racist violence where it would not be possible in the analog world.

00:23:26: Additionally, together with some groups that we met during our work.

00:23:29: We will also produce a short movie and two podcast episodes.

00:23:34: in short the idea behind The Transfer Project is radical.

00:23:38: instead of presenting the definite story off migration

00:23:42: let

00:23:42: people see how different choices produced different narratives make visible production process itself.

00:23:50: Instead of telling people what to think about migration, they are showing them how migration narratives get made and their parting from the idea that people outside universities or cultural institutions have expertise in producing knowledge relevant into our observations.

00:24:12: This isn't just public outreach!

00:24:14: It's generating new data and insights about how migration meanings are negotiated in public

00:24:19: spaces.

00:24:21: And it is about putting the rather

00:24:22: abstract-sounding

00:24:24: ideas of production of migration, and reflexive migration research into

00:24:28: practice.".

00:24:29: One more key component I should mention is The Integrated Research Training Group or IRTG.

00:24:37: This is the SFB´s PhD program. It is lead by Professor Christine Lang and Professor Helen Schwenken. 

00:24:40: Christine, please explain us what the IRTG is and how it operates.

00:24:48: We have around twenty doctoral researchers in the SFB projects who do their PhDs on different disciplines – sociology, geography political science history social psychology And our IRTGs are designed to support them as best possible for their PhD journey.

00:25:06: So we have regular colloquia where the doctoral researches present.

00:25:12: We have methods courses writing workshops, also workshops on important skills.

00:25:17: All is adapted to the different stages of developing a PhD.

00:25:21: A highlight was our international PhD spring school with more than forty participants from various countries where our PhDs took a lead in the organization.

00:25:32: Our aim is to support successfully our PhD's to complete their projects and to train young researchers in interdisciplinary reflexive migration research, because we consider this a crucial part of our SFB endeavor.

00:25:48: This investment in early career researchers is crucial – these are the scholars who will be shaping migration research for next generation….

00:25:56: …and they're being trained from day one to think reflexively about their work!

00:26:03: So why does all this matter?

00:26:06: We

00:26:07: live in a time when migration dominates headlines, political debates and social anxieties.

00:26:13: From European border policies to refugee crises... ...to debates about integration and belonging….

00:26:20: …migration is everywhere!

00:26:22: But

00:26:23: most of those debates take for granted what migration is – they assume We all know what we are talking about when we use words like migrant, labor migration refugee or integration.

00:26:37: Our collaborative research center, Sixteen O Four is saying hold on!

00:26:42: Let's examine those assumptions.

00:26:44: let's look at how we create these categories who benefits

00:26:48: whose harmed

00:26:49: and what alternatives might exist.

00:26:52: this isn't just academic naval gazing.

00:26:55: Understanding how migration is produced helps us see where change as necessary or possible, and like what can help us understand broader socio-political processes in developments.

00:27:07: If migration isn't just a natural fact but a socially constructed reality then it can be constructed differently.

00:27:15: SFB 1604 is looking at these aspects systematically empirically and collaboratively.

00:27:21: Over the course of up to twelve years, they'll be developing a comprehensive theory... ...of how migration is socially produced.

00:27:29: And in doing so….

00:27:30: …they're not just studying migration!

00:27:33: They are potentially changing

00:27:34: how we all think

00:27:35: about it and inform future discourses about migration – impacting how we live together.

00:27:43: Well that's it for today.

00:27:46: In this episode we took closer look at the Collaborative Research Centre production on Migration.

00:27:52: So next time you hear someone talking about migrants or immigration, ask yourself.

00:27:58: Who's producing that meaning?

00:27:59: How and why?

00:28:05: Thank-you for listening to Production Sight the podcast about the societal negotiation of migration.

00:28:12: If this episode made you think subscribe and spread a word.

00:28:17: You can find all credits sources in further links In the show notes at www.producingmigration.org.

00:28:24: Production site is produced by the Collaborative Research Centre Production of Migration at Osnabrück University, funded by The German Research Foundation in collaboration with Podcastfabrik Bielefeld.

00:28:38: New episodes are available wherever you get your podcasts!

00:28:42: Until next time and until then – what's being produced right now?